tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post8414619436014308704..comments2024-03-28T00:43:37.279-05:00Comments on Future War Stories: The Motorpool: The APC and IFVWilliamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17218428427067689631noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-35361044792594794422019-12-02T18:50:50.610-06:002019-12-02T18:50:50.610-06:00Sorry. I had to correct some mistypes as well as ...Sorry. I had to correct some mistypes as well as attempt better wording.<br /><br />1. Wheeled with solid tires which allows for massed automotive production encase of attritional warfare.<br />2. Tires are "easier to change/replace" than tracks while solid tires are SOLID and thus more bullet-resistant than traditional (air-filled tube) tires.<br />3. Amphibious/Sealed for use in hostile environments and to enable more water crossings instead of targeted bridges and fords.<br />4. Hovercraft require a limted range of Earth-type atmosphere, reducing their deployability.<br />5. Aerospace Dropships coupled with armored car (small arms resistant) amphibious sealed wheeled combat vehicles using a flatbed-&-dedicated mission modules seems likely.<br />6. Autocannon (20+mm), machinegun (.50+), and atleast one extrenal field reloadable ATGM would be the most versatile of armament packages (M2/M3 Bradleys & BMP-2's).<br />7. Cost is relative as an imperfect armored car can be better than nothing especially when the investment is compared to what you'd lose without the armored car (manpower, resources, etc...).Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12887347330532346282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-52684451142484029082019-12-02T18:42:57.087-06:002019-12-02T18:42:57.087-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12887347330532346282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-39076006484047097112018-01-31T22:59:15.131-06:002018-01-31T22:59:15.131-06:00Nice Website, lots of good stuff here to read from...Nice Website, lots of good stuff here to read from real world to scifi.mr.clifford johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02510611415932807501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-8341882999336889432015-08-02T01:04:37.309-05:002015-08-02T01:04:37.309-05:00Most people that employ IEDs are cowardly cunts ma...Most people that employ IEDs are cowardly cunts mainly for the reason that they leave them in the middle of an Iraqi road and detonate them on anyone (including women and children) also since they're improvised they can put them in any place like inside dead bodies. It boils down to the person disregard for innocent people who are just going about their daily lives. However It does depend on who uses them and their intentions.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555953556972572471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-14649798385225623662015-06-05T23:48:57.530-05:002015-06-05T23:48:57.530-05:00Oh man, I had one of those big trak programmable v...Oh man, I had one of those big trak programmable vehicles when I was a kidRelicchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01407243922196520949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-87486622612464797722015-06-02T05:37:02.465-05:002015-06-02T05:37:02.465-05:00Shas thanks for bring up a point.
Amphibious does...Shas thanks for bring up a point. <br />Amphibious does not always mean the same thing. There are vehicles like the AAV, EFV and PTS these are built from blueprint to production with moving across the sea in mind then there are converted and amphibious capable designs that have it added to a lesser degree. Like the M113 or Tulpar-S or LAV they can cross some rivers in optimal conditions. <br />For a Scifi example the Mass Effect Mako seems more of a ground vehicle well the XM44 Hammerhead was more in like with the orbital equivalent of a true AAV. Well you could drop a M35 Mako from the ship it was only in optimal and from a shit altitude vs the XM44 which was more aircraft.<br /><br />Factor for consideration in true amphibious vehicles vs dog patting river crossings are <br />Propulsion: Is it dog paddling on band tracks or using propellers or water jets?<br />Hydroplane or just shallow draft<br />And most critically important Sea state. AAV has a sea state of 5 that means a 4 meter tall wave will not capsize it. Most armored vehicles and even landing craft are lucky for a sea state of 3. 2 or below below and your lucky if it will cross a Olympic swimming pool. A true sea crossing Amphibious vehicle needs a 4 or better to be able to make it from mother ship to beachhead day or night even in some foul weather. <br />Moving across to make a landing is no quick trip either other then EFV or ZDB vehicles most are lucky to clock 6 knots a trip from 16 miles off shore to land can take hours with Marines confined to the small space... Hope you don't get sea sick. <br />Right now that we may see a renewed interest in true Military Amphibious landing vehicles. The Gibbs designs like Humdinga and quad sky show that perhaps the next generation of Marine LMUV could be built to move across water with out bridges or landing craft. And there seemingly aborted Amphibious Combat Craft Riverine concept from a few years back seems to me to be the starting point of a true next Gen AAV. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-45445294559758378532015-06-02T04:44:06.173-05:002015-06-02T04:44:06.173-05:00In the case of vehicles like the AAV7A1, they'...In the case of vehicles like the AAV7A1, they're size gives them stability in rough surf. I would not like to be at sea in a m113. <br /><br />On the subject of large vehicles making for easy targets, one can assume that such a vehicle would have better defenses. If I can liken them to battleships of WW 2, Think of the most powerful of them, and you will find that most of them are on the bottom of the ocean. <br /><br />If the rebels of Star Wars2, The Empire Strikes Back had known there was a chance of facing imperial walkers, then they should have mounted heavy anti-ship blasters supporting their trench line. Even if these weapons were hard to aim, it is not like the AT-ATs were moving fast enough to do any evasive maneuvers. The imperial force would have been massacred. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14036673794983466123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-12937249872302424592015-06-02T04:24:21.914-05:002015-06-02T04:24:21.914-05:00Number of river crossing is always very limited, I...Number of river crossing is always very limited, I know that... serving as BMP-1 crew member I did have pretty good insight in to that topic. You can't pick up every type of water obstacle and move in to it without preparation, that's only is done in vehicles commercials or games. The river can't be too fast, it can't be to wide, shores need to be proper ones, ground a proper one ect. That's all limit possible places for crossing in to only a handful. If I take map of the region I may even not be able to find ANY place where I can cross the river. BMP-1 have that advantage that was build like... boat. It's light, armor almost non existing, but it can go in to water with soldiers inside. On the other hand, the excellent Patria AMV (Polish modification the KTO Rosomak) can go in to water... but WITHOUT soldiers inside, only crew. You land it the most absurd situation where vehicle cross the river (barely, Rosomak is poor swimmer) but the soldiers need to "swim" behind him in a dingy. Insane. <br /><br />EFV is wonderful piece of equipment, but it's huge and insanely costly. It show that you CAN build something that will swim fast and good, have good protection and good armament... but for the cost of shit tons of cash and huge size. That's hit in to number 4 of perfect solution between firepower - protection - maneuverability AND economy of use. And the last one is sometimes more important that first 3. <br /><br />I'm deeply interesting in Finish tactics as they have the same potential aggressor and more problems with water obstacles. but they were able to maintain flexibility in equipment use between swim and not swim. And I'm sure we should learn from that, we don't need full swim forces, we already have the "nearly swimming" wheeled IFV, the tracked IFV don't need it. Shashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06772329154615576984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-74413500015367368212015-06-01T15:22:06.551-05:002015-06-01T15:22:06.551-05:00I never imagined a throwaway line would create suc...I never imagined a throwaway line would create such havoc! The subject of IEDs is a touchy one here in America. We have many vets coming missing pieces of themselves from IEDs and more scarred mentally from the plague of them in A-Stan and Iraq. Some I know, and they used that word to describe the terrorists using IEDs. I think Yoel said it best, and he knows a great deal more than me. America was founded on guerrilla warfare and military officers use to regard snipers as dishonorable. <br />I will cover more on war mortality one day...sounds like a topic FWS needs to cover. <br />Thanks for the comments. Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17218428427067689631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-46589006241320832672015-06-01T14:32:01.657-05:002015-06-01T14:32:01.657-05:00It's explosive subject, like the female soldie...It's explosive subject, like the female soldiers, Yoel. William made it once, so he can do it again. It should be mentioned about war rape, ,,living shields", sorry for my English. I live in middle-east part of Europe, place where in WW II both Russians and Germans were fighting, so i know very much about war crime... Sad story, 6 millions deaths in one small country... I wish next war to be completely annihilating everything. And, a lot of comments here, someone may just came here to see them!<br />MrAnderson Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-58346176267254134592015-06-01T14:21:51.708-05:002015-06-01T14:21:51.708-05:00The most probable enemy of Finland is Russia, and ...The most probable enemy of Finland is Russia, and if they invade, they are most likely coming from southeast, where terrain is much more accommodating to armoured vehicles. Being an artilleryman myself, I'm not an expert on our armoured tactics, but I'm under the impression that CV90s are mostly used there, along with Leopard MBTs, while BMP-2s are used in more watery terrains.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-34599548611255707902015-06-01T14:07:33.417-05:002015-06-01T14:07:33.417-05:00Swimming gives up a lot, most Armored vehicles can...Swimming gives up a lot, most Armored vehicles can ford shallow water. Those vehicles that have been converted or modified with a "Swim capability" Tend to only gain some degree of amphibious capacity though calm rivers or lakes.<br /> True Amphibians have to be built that way from the start but it's expensive. look at the EFV it priced it's self right out of existence because it managed to get to the Ideal of high protection, high speed and good sea handling across rough seas. The final nail was the need to expand landing ranges from ship to shore beyond 75 miles.<br /> LCONhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04841691624835390231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-72716004830111003612015-06-01T14:00:02.111-05:002015-06-01T14:00:02.111-05:00If I may I will like to address the issue of IED a...If I may I will like to address the issue of IED and the question of cowardness<br />First - is the tendency to attribute human vices and virtues to inanimate object, will IED placed in an area highly patrolled and under sensors surveillance makes an IED 'courageous' when usually it 'cowardly'? Its physical structure and chemical composite haven’t change….<br />Second - is the tendency to attribute moral judgment to peoples, armies, tactics and not the motives of fighting, is IED tactics wrong? How about long range sniping? How about silencers? Surprise attack? Night attack with night vision against enemy without night vision?<br />On the personal note – I'm IDF veteran, and IDF suffered badly from IED both in Lebanon and Gaza. I don't think to blame my enemies in ' cowardness' for using any tactic. I blame & hate them for their motives not methods, for their 'why' rather than their 'how'. <br />War is hell and I expect both my enemies and my army to use any "dirty" tactic in & off the book. Sadly while my enemies do act so my country & army aren't….<br />William, here is a good (at list I think it good) subject to your articles 'to do list' – the morality of war: treaties, rules of engagement, international law, use of civilians population etc.<br />I know it is explosive subject (again with explosive devices… ) but both FWS and its readers are mature enough to deal with it.<br />FWS usually avoid any political issues (like the comments on the 'female soldiers' article) , but war is a political issue and not discussing & researching those issues is like avoiding all FWS Armory subjects because some people think "guns are dangers/evil/whatever" <br /><br />Yoel <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-60401942635449965672015-06-01T13:56:06.045-05:002015-06-01T13:56:06.045-05:00Historically Almost all the large ( and I mean LAR...Historically Almost all the large ( and I mean LARGE) AFV's are in the Amphibious class like the USMC's AAV/LVPT series the current model the AAV7A1 has a crew of 3+21 marines the model it replaced the LVPT 5 packed in a 3 man crew and 34 marines. <br />LVPT5 was a troop ship on tracks and it had the land speed to prove it. A modern AAV7A1 can make 45Mph on a road which is a down right speed demon compared to the 29 MPH of the LVPT5. Amphibious APC's also suffer thin skins due to needing to be light enough to swim across calm seas it was not until the EFV that a Amphib that had both speed and protection equal to a ground vehicle could be properly made. but the cost was high. now it seems most of the new Amphibs are going smaller to try and compensate the PLA's ZBD series holds only 7 troops plus the 3 man crew. the USMC's ACV has a aim of a 3 man crew with 8-9 possibly as man as 12 marines a challenge for a vehicle of this class well a step down from the past. LCONhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04841691624835390231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-25248503425559836642015-06-01T13:55:54.865-05:002015-06-01T13:55:54.865-05:00But you don't need that everything swim... CV9...But you don't need that everything swim... CV90 is a proposed platform for replacement of BMP-1 in my country, but they have the enemy in the Army HQ that demand that everything need to swim. That's why they really hurt the excellent Patria AMV vehicle. If something swim, it can't be to heavy ergo can't have good protection. So I wonder how CV90 are operated in Finland, country with such high number of water obstacles and mainly not that tank friendly land. In my opinion the Finish army is perfect example how you can protect your own nation as the mainly defense force. Shashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06772329154615576984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-91029120662451122015-06-01T13:36:13.190-05:002015-06-01T13:36:13.190-05:00For that exact reason about half of the IFVs opera...For that exact reason about half of the IFVs operated by Finnish army are BMP-2s, which, I believe are to be upgraded in the near future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-23557267028021152072015-06-01T13:03:23.851-05:002015-06-01T13:03:23.851-05:00A question... CV90, great vehicle but without abil...A question... CV90, great vehicle but without ability to swim. Finland, lot's of lot's of places where you can swim... how Finish army operate the CV90 is such water contested terrain? Shashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06772329154615576984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-64311037069472883332015-06-01T12:53:46.781-05:002015-06-01T12:53:46.781-05:00Will, under the Chimera IFV you put a picture of S...Will, under the Chimera IFV you put a picture of Salamander scout vehicle, Vanaheim pattern command version. ;)Shashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06772329154615576984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-66219460742393211152015-06-01T11:16:05.733-05:002015-06-01T11:16:05.733-05:00Well yeah, I agree that the way insurgents use the...Well yeah, I agree that the way insurgents use the IEDs in Iraq and Afghanistan is cowardly, but that doesn't make the devices themselves so, because even armed forces sometimes have to resort to such devices.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-86072915011819743302015-06-01T10:56:49.518-05:002015-06-01T10:56:49.518-05:00PLEASE NOTE:
I took this blog article and rewrote ...PLEASE NOTE:<br />I took this blog article and rewrote several sections based on the information presented in the comments. I have also removed several items from the blogpost that were not correct or deemed offensive. I want to say thanks for pointing out the REAL difference between the APC and the IFV. Being a kid of the Cold War, I was also told that the firing ports were the difference, and the larger armament was simply an upgrade to deal with the changing battlefield. And, yes, I know consider the M35 MAKO and the XM44 HAMMERHEAD both IFVs as BioWare originally intended. They were right, I was wrong. Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17218428427067689631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-80455052257478123892015-06-01T09:37:33.821-05:002015-06-01T09:37:33.821-05:00Mines are important strategy weapon system in armo...Mines are important strategy weapon system in armored warfare, especially in Europe during the Cold War when the Warsaw Pact outnumbered NATO nations. The types of IEDs I find, and most Americans, so horrible is what we've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan that kill and wound soldiers. Not mines in proper warfare. IEDs as are of insurgency that are design to attack with out consideration. Now, when if comes that Finland was invaded by the Russians or even the US, than I would expect the use of anti-tank mines, which is a proper use of mine warfare. Terrorist using IED to kill soldiers on patrol is completely different.<br />Anyways, I will pull down this blogpost for some retooling. <br /> Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17218428427067689631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-66272422652246917692015-06-01T08:34:44.762-05:002015-06-01T08:34:44.762-05:00I'm Finnish, and big part our military doctrin...I'm Finnish, and big part our military doctrine relies heavily on off-route AT-mines, which are basically the same as some IEDs, except they are made in factories. Luckily we are not expecting America to invade our country, because that would make our defensive efforts cowardly in your eyes.<br /><br />Being able to fire small arms from the inside is not part of the definiton of IFV. For example CV90, the main IFV in service of Finnish Army doesn't have firing ports, but it's still designated as IFV.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-70097082906261703352015-06-01T08:17:47.428-05:002015-06-01T08:17:47.428-05:00What makes an IED cowardly for me is the way that ...What makes an IED cowardly for me is the way that they are used against American forces. I always respect an enemy that does a standup fight, not hiding bombs. The Mako is an APC, because the crew cannot use their own small arms to defend the vehicle. While its armament is over 20mm, like the mobile gun platform Stryker, the crew is sealed up in their battle taxiWilliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17218428427067689631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-60782098341296149212015-06-01T08:11:27.938-05:002015-06-01T08:11:27.938-05:00Why is Mako not an IFV? Surely it's main armam...Why is Mako not an IFV? Surely it's main armament is over 20 mm.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-726484495782035142.post-76355066974751083972015-06-01T07:48:39.625-05:002015-06-01T07:48:39.625-05:00How are IEDs cowardly devices? They are just makes...How are IEDs cowardly devices? They are just makeshift AT-mines.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com